779: How to Address Bad Behavior, with Nilofer Merchant
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In this episode of Coaching for Leaders, host Dave Stachowiak welcomes Nilofer Merchant, a top management thinker and author of 'Our Best Work,' to discuss how leaders can effectively address bad behavior in organizations without waiting for systemic change. Drawing on a powerful story about an employee named Alex whose idea was stolen by a colleague and dismissed by her boss, Merchant illustrates how unchecked behavior—like idea theft—erodes innovation, damages morale, and drives talent away. She reframes the issue not as a problem of 'bad apples' but as a failure of organizational norms, emphasizing that culture is shaped by repeated, unchallenged behaviors. The episode outlines five actionable steps to shift norms: clarifying what’s acceptable, designing for everyone’s needs, creating clear and escalating consequences, holding people accountable, and ensuring collective reinforcement of new standards. Merchant champions the 'meso layer'—the relational, interactional space between individual and culture—as the most powerful lever for change, showing how small, respectful interventions (like raising a hand or saying 'I don’t know if you mean to, but…') can shift group dynamics and prevent harm. The conversation underscores that leadership isn’t about authority but about courage, intentionality, and co-creation of better ways of working.
Bad behavior in organizations is often sustained not by individual villains but by unchallenged norms; change starts with naming and interrupting harmful patterns.
Leaders can drive cultural change through small, relational interventions—like a raised hand or a gentle phrase—rather than waiting for top-down mandates.
The most powerful change happens at the 'meso layer'—the space between individuals and systems—where teams co-create new norms through shared accountability.
When people feel their contributions are devalued (e.g., ideas stolen), they leave; talent doesn’t beg—it moves. Protecting psychological safety is essential for innovation.
Accountability doesn’t require punishment; it can be as simple as saying 'that’s not okay for me' or using a shared signal (like the 'YMCA M') to gently redirect behavior.
…and 3 more takeaways available in PodZeus
The Leadership Challenge: Addressing Bad Behavior
Dave introduces the central challenge of handling bad behavior in organizations and sets the stage for a conversation with Nilofer Merchant on how leaders can respond with clarity and courage.
The Story of Alex: When Ideas Are Stolen
“The minute you've told talent that their talent doesn't matter, talent will move.”
Beyond Bad Apples: The Power of Organizational Norms
“It's not just individuals who do bad things. It's also the organizational norms, the barrel that create rot and reinforce bad behavior.”
Five Steps to Shift Organizational Norms
“The most powerful change happens at the 'meso layer'—the space between individuals and systems.”
Small Interventions, Big Impact: The Art of Respectful Interruption
“Kindness is actually the sturdy way in which we lead our team.”
“The minute you've told talent that their talent doesn't matter, talent will move.”
“Kindness is actually the sturdy way in which we lead our team.”
“It's not just individuals who do bad things. It's also the organizational norms, the barrel that create rot and reinforce bad behavior.”
Host
Guest
Nilofer Merchant
person
Dave Stachowiak
person
Alex
person
Our Best Work
book
Apple
organization
Michael Bungay Stanier
person
The Coaching Habit
book
Dolly Chug
person
Graham Alcott
person
Coaching for Leaders
media
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