672. What Makes Judy Faulkner Run?

In this episode of Freakonomics Radio, host Stephen Dubner explores the life and leadership of Judy Faulkner, the founder and CEO of Epic Systems, a company that dominates the electronic health records market in the U.S. and beyond. Faulkner, a computer scientist and self-described 'techie' who founded Epic in 1979 from a basement in Madison, Wisconsin, has built a company that serves over 80% of Americans through its MyChart platform and integrated health IT systems. Despite Epic’s massive scale—15,000 employees across 16 countries—Faulkner has steadfastly avoided public funding, acquisitions, and profit maximization, guided by a set of internal 'Ten Commandments' that prioritize customer success, ethical responsibility, and long-term impact. Her leadership style is marked by deep technical curiosity, a focus on problem-solving over drama, and a personal philosophy rooted in 'tikkun olam'—repairing the world. The episode also delves into Epic’s growing antitrust scrutiny, its resistance to third-party app integration, and its controversial stance on work culture, including a strict no-remote-work policy and a whimsical, immersive campus environment. Dubner reflects on how Faulkner’s values—rooted in ethics, frugality, and service—stand in stark contrast to the typical Silicon Valley model. Faulkner’s legacy is not just technological but cultural. Her refusal to go public or sell the company ensures that Epic remains focused on its mission rather than shareholder returns. She emphasizes that her primary responsibility is to customers, followed by employees, the company, and then shareholders—reversing the typical corporate hierarchy. Her personal story, shaped by a peace activist mother and a career in computer science, underscores a lifelong commitment to making systems work better for people. The episode ends with Dubner contemplating the future of Epic after Faulkner, who is 82 and shows no signs of retiring. Despite criticism from some physicians about the software’s complexity, Epic’s customers remain loyal, and its innovations in AI-driven clinical decision support—like sepsis prediction and patient similarity matching—demonstrate its transformative potential in healthcare. Ultimately, the episode portrays Faulkner not as a ruthless tech titan, but as a quietly revolutionary leader who built a company that’s as much about values as it is about code.