18. Robert Sapolsky: “I Don’t Think We Have Any Free Will Whatsoever.”

Robert Sapolsky, the renowned primatologist and neuroscientist, delivers a radical rethinking of free will, morality, and justice in a conversation that upends conventional thinking. He argues that humans are not agents of free will but the product of biological luck—genetics, early life stress, brain chemistry, and environmental factors—rendering blame, punishment, and even praise meaningless. Drawing on decades of research with baboons, he reveals that social connectedness and emotional resilience matter more for health than dominance or status, and that chronic stress, especially from adverse childhood experiences (ACEs), rewires the brain to perceive the world as perpetually unsafe. His most provocative claim? The criminal justice system, built on retribution, is fundamentally unjust because no one chooses their biology. Instead, he proposes a 'quarantine model'—protecting society while offering humane care, much like isolating someone with a terminal illness they didn’t cause. The conversation leaves Steve Levitt stunned: his long-held belief in moral outrage as a legitimate function of justice is shattered. Sapolsky’s message is not nihilistic but urgent: as we learn more about the brain, we must evolve our ethics—or risk looking as backward as those who once burned people for seizures.