Priyanka Kumar, "Light Between Apple Trees: Rediscovering the Wild Through a Beloved American Fruit" (Island Press, 2025)
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The apple, long celebrated as a symbol of health and American folklore, has become a hollowed-out relic of its former self—reduced to a handful of bland, lab-engineered varieties that fail to satisfy our palates or our deeper connection to nature. In 'The Light Between Apple Trees,' naturalist Priyanka Kumar reclaims the apple not as a commodity, but as a portal to the wild. Drawing from her childhood in the biodiverse Himalayan foothills and her current life in drought-stricken New Mexico, Kumar reveals how feral apple trees—often dismissed as weeds—serve as vital biodiversity hubs, sustaining bears, birds, and insects. She introduces the radical concept of the 'micro-wild': small, overlooked patches of nature that, though fragmented, still teem with life and offer urban dwellers a tangible, accessible way to reconnect with the wild. Far from being a nostalgic retreat, the micro-wild is a practical, urgent response to ecological fragmentation. Kumar argues that the wild doesn’t need to be preserved in distant national parks—it’s already here, in the edges of forests, along riverbanks, and in forgotten orchards. By rediscovering the apple’s true diversity—its complex flavors, its deep history, and its role in ancient symbiotic relationships with animals—we can begin to heal our fractured relationship with nature.
The 'micro-wild' is a fragmented but vital patch of nature—like feral apple groves—that sustains biodiversity and offers urban dwellers accessible access to the wild.
Over 16,000 apple varieties once existed in America; today, only about 3,000 remain, with most grocery stores offering just 5–10 lab-engineered, tasteless varieties.
Apples were historically valued not for eating, but for cider-making—early settlers drank them, not ate them, which explains why 'spitter' apples were acceptable.
Grafting is essential for preserving apple variety, yet early American farmers rejected it as 'devilish,' leading to the loss of genetic diversity.
The myth of Johnny Appleseed obscures a deeper truth: the real pioneers of American fruit were often overlooked figures like Archbishop Jean-Baptiste Lamy, who cultivated gardens as acts of spiritual and ecological generosity.
…and 3 more takeaways available in PodZeus
The Apple as Cultural Icon and Ecological Paradox
“We've gotten stuck as a society in this. We're in like the death grip of 10 lab apples.”
The Science of the Apple: From Megafauna to Mutualism
Kumar dives into the evolutionary history of the apple, explaining how it evolved to attract birds 40 million years ago and then megafaunal mammals like bears 20 million years ago. This deep-time mutualism reveals that apples were never just for humans—they were designed to be eaten by animals to spread seeds. The feral apple trees of New Mexico now serve as critical food sources for bears during a mega drought.
The Micro-Wild: Finding the Wild in the Everyday
“I think these places are very important because they can give the average person access to the wild, and they do exist somewhere around you.”
The Myth of Johnny Appleseed and the Forgotten Fruit Evangelists
The episode unpacks the myth of Johnny Appleseed, revealing that while he was real, the Disney-fied version is exaggerated. Kumar shifts focus to lesser-known figures like Archbishop Jean-Baptiste Lamy, who planted a Garden of Eden-like orchard in Santa Fe that was later destroyed. These stories highlight how fruit has long been a vehicle for spiritual, cultural, and ecological connection.
Jefferson, Slavery, and the Contradictions of American Fruit
Kumar reflects on her time at Monticello, where she grappled with Jefferson’s legacy: a visionary naturalist who grew 170 apple varieties, yet whose gardens were built on enslaved labor. This duality underscores a central theme: American progress in agriculture and science has often come at a profound human cost.
“I think these places are very important because they can give the average person access to the wild, and they do exist somewhere around you.”
“you mentioned, I would like us to see the wild, not with fear, but with almost a sense of being deeply attracted to the wild.”
“It's the connections that become so evident. And I hope that I'm able to get that.”
Host
Guest
Priyanka Kumar
person
Thomas Jefferson
person
Johnny Appleseed
person
Santa Fe
place
Monticello
place
Long-billed curlew
other
Newtown Pippin
other
Archbishop Jean-Baptiste Lamy
person
Prairie dog
other
Red Delicious
other
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