Lawfare Archive: How to Steal a Presidential Election

The Lawfare Podcast57mApril 4, 2026

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AI-Generated Summary

This episode from the Lawfare Archive revisits a 2024 conversation between Jack Goldsmith and Lawrence Lessig on the vulnerabilities in the U.S. presidential election system, as explored in their book *How to Steal a Presidential Election*. The discussion centers on how legal loopholes and procedural ambiguities—despite reforms like the Electoral Count Reform Act of 2022—still allow for potential manipulation in close elections. Lessig outlines seven plausible scenarios for election subversion, including the misuse of faithless electors, rogue governors manipulating certification timelines, and the strategic delay of recounts to lock in unfavorable results. He emphasizes that while the law can codify procedures, it cannot enforce good faith—a critical missing ingredient in a polarized political environment. The episode underscores that the real danger lies not in the rules themselves, but in the erosion of norms and the willingness of political actors to exploit ambiguity when stakes are high. The conversation concludes with a sobering reminder: no legal framework can fully protect democracy if key actors operate in bad faith. Key takeaways include: (1) The Electoral Count Reform Act, while an improvement, still enables strategic manipulation through strict certification deadlines; (2) State legislatures retain unchecked power to direct electors after Election Day, potentially overriding popular vote results; (3) The concept of 'fake electors' is not just a 2020 anomaly but a structural vulnerability that could be exploited in future close contests; (4) The system relies heavily on the assumption of good faith, which is increasingly fragile; and (5) The most effective defense is not just legal reform, but cultivating institutional immunity through public awareness and normative reinforcement. The overall tone is cautionary but not hopeless, stressing that understanding the system’s flaws is the first step toward strengthening it.

Key Takeaways
1

The Electoral Count Reform Act does not prevent state legislatures from directing electors to vote against the popular vote winner after Election Day.

2

Rogue governors or legislatures can delay recounts to lock in certification before a recount can correct errors, effectively freezing a disputed result.

3

Faithless electors are not the main threat—state legislatures are, as they can bind electors to vote contrary to the popular vote with no constitutional check.

4

The Hawaii 1960 case shows how a late recount can be invalidated under current law, creating a strategic incentive to delay the process.

5

Good faith cannot be legislated; when results are close, even partisan actors may exploit procedural ambiguity to subvert the outcome.

Chapters
0:00
10 min

Introduction: The 2026 Executive Order and the Legacy of Election Vulnerabilities

Marissa Wong introduces the episode with a 2026 executive order by President Trump restricting mail-in voting and expanding federal control over state elections, framing it as part of a broader effort to question election integrity. She transitions to a 2024 Lawfare podcast featuring Lawrence Lessig and Jack Goldsmith discussing the enduring structural risks to U.S. presidential elections, as detailed in Lessig and Seligman’s book *How to Steal a Presidential Election*.

10:00
10 min

The 2000 Election and the Myth of Constitutional Clarity

It's hard to imagine either side not going to the mat... It's more difficult to imagine either side not going to the mat.

Highlight
20:00
10 min

The Vice Presidential 'Superpower' and the Eastman Theory

The discussion turns to the John Eastman theory that the vice president, as president of the Senate, has unilateral power to decide which electoral slate to count. Lessig argues this theory is baseless, historically unsupported, and has been abandoned even by Eastman himself. The Electoral Count Reform Act further undermines it by making the vice president’s role purely ministerial.

30:00
15 min

Faithless Electors: From Constitutional Freedom to State Coercion

We think that we recommend that states adopt laws that bind their electors... but those binding statutes have to make the exception. If a candidate dies, then the electors are free to vote as they wish.

Highlight
45:00
15 min

The Rogue Governor Gambit and the Winner-Take-All Trap

The critical point is to recognize that, in fact, that's the case right now in the vast majority, indeed 44 states.

Highlight
High-Impact Quotes
No rule change will cure a lack of good faith. If good faith disappears, it is not clear that any system of rules can regulate the process perfectly.
Lawrence Lessig53:33
Viral: 90.0
We think that we recommend that states adopt laws that bind their electors... but those binding statutes have to make the exception. If a candidate dies, then the electors are free to vote as they wish.
Lawrence Lessig21:51
Viral: 85.0
The only basis for that is saying that his votes were not regularly given. Were not regularly given because he's an insurrectionist, therefore not qualified.
Lawrence Lessig52:29
Viral: 82.0
Speakers

Host

Jack Goldsmith

Guest

Lawrence Lessig
Topics Discussed
election integrity95%electoral count act94%bad faith in politics92%electoral college reform90%state legislature power88%faithless electors85%recount procedures80%vice presidential role75%
People & Brands

Supreme Court

organization

12xNeutral

Lawrence Lessig

person

12xPositive

Donald Trump

person

11xNegative

Congress

organization

11xMixed

Electoral Count Reform Act

other

10xPositive

Joe Biden

person

9xNeutral

Jack Goldsmith

person

8xPositive

John Eastman

person

7xNegative

Florida

place

6xNeutral

Al Gore

person

6xNeutral

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