Will Trump 'blink first' and end the war?
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This episode of ABC News Daily examines the ongoing war between the U.S. and Iran, now over seven weeks old, and whether a diplomatic off-ramp can be found. Former Trump administration Iran negotiator Nate Swanson offers a candid assessment of the conflict's trajectory, criticizing President Trump's erratic leadership and the lack of clear objectives. Despite massive U.S.-Israeli strikes, Iran has leveraged control of the Strait of Hormuz as a strategic deterrent—something Swanson calls a 'huge boon' that has unexpectedly shifted the balance of power. While Iran has suffered military damage, it sees itself as winning by surviving and asserting influence. Swanson argues both sides have an interest in ending the war, but major obstacles remain: U.S. demands for nuclear concessions versus Iran’s desire to monetize the strait and secure long-term deterrence. He warns against a deal that lets Iran establish a 'toll booth' through the strait, which would be a strategic loss. With peace talks in Pakistan underway and conflicting signals from Trump, Swanson remains skeptical about a deal by Wednesday but sees a framework as possible. The episode underscores the high stakes of diplomacy in a war where both sides may be waiting for the other to blink first.
Iran has successfully turned the Strait of Hormuz into a strategic deterrent, giving it leverage despite military losses.
Trump’s inconsistent messaging—threatening total destruction one day, announcing a deal the next—undermines U.S. credibility and plays into Iran’s hands.
Iran is not seeking to surrender or capitulate but wants long-term security guarantees, including control over the strait and sanctions relief.
The U.S. must avoid a deal that rewards Iran with de facto control over the Strait of Hormuz, which would be a major strategic defeat.
A framework agreement is possible, but a full deal by the Pakistan talks is unlikely due to deep differences on nuclear enrichment and sanctions.
Introduction: The War in Iran and the Search for an Off-Ramp
The episode opens with a brief promo for another ABC podcast before introducing the ongoing U.S.-Iran war, now over seven weeks old, and the uncertainty surrounding the upcoming peace talks in Pakistan.
Nate Swanson on the War's Unpredictable Trajectory
“I think it was not totally surprising that Iran escalated so quickly... but never, I think, would have ever guessed that it would go this long and that it would be still so messy 50 days in without a clear idea of how exactly this ends.”
Iran’s Strategic Use of the Strait of Hormuz
“It's really been, you know, a huge boon for Iran to be able to utilize this power, this new power in ways that are really quite unforeseen and quite effective.”
The Divergent Goals of the U.S. and Iran
“If we end up with a situation where Iran has basically a toll booth running through the Strait of Hormuz, that's a huge strategic loss for the U.S. and for the world.”
Can a Deal Be Reached? The Role of J.D. Vance and Trump’s Posturing
The discussion turns to Trump’s erratic behavior and the symbolic role of J.D. Vance in the talks. Swanson suggests Iran sees Vance as more peace-oriented and less supportive of war, which gives him leverage. He remains skeptical of a full deal but sees a framework as possible.
“If we end up with a situation where Iran has basically a toll booth running through the Strait of Hormuz, that's a huge strategic loss for the U.S. and for the world.”
“It's really been, you know, a huge boon for Iran to be able to utilize this power, this new power in ways that are really quite unforeseen and quite effective.”
“I think it was not totally surprising that Iran escalated so quickly... but never, I think, would have ever guessed that it would go this long and that it would be still so messy 50 days in without a clear idea of how exactly this ends.”
Host
Guest
Nate Swanson
person
Iran
place
United States
place
Strait of Hormuz
other
Donald Trump
person
Israel
place
J.D. Vance
person
Pakistan
place
Biden presidency
organization
Atlantic Council
organization
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