The Chief Justice Didn’t Hate President Obama | Interview: Gov. Kevin Stitt

In this episode of Advisory Opinions, hosts Sarah Isger and David French dive deep into the leaked 2016 Supreme Court memos surrounding the Clean Power Plan, challenging The New York Times' narrative that this marked the 'birth of the shadow docket.' They argue that the shadow docket had been used for years prior—especially in high-stakes culture war cases like abortion and same-sex marriage—making the 2016 moment an inflection point rather than a genesis. The discussion highlights how executive overreach under President Obama, particularly through the 'pen and phone' era, created a feedback loop that necessitated judicial intervention, with the Court’s internal deliberations revealing a thoughtful, civil, and intellectually rigorous process. The episode also examines recent Supreme Court developments: Justice Sotomayor’s apology for a racially insensitive comment, the controversial (and likely exaggerated) story of Justice Kagan screaming at Justice Breyer over the Dobbs leak, Justice Alito’s denial of retirement, and Justice Thomas’s speech critiquing Wilsonian progressivism—not modern liberalism. The hosts emphasize the importance of distinguishing technical political philosophy from colloquial usage. The second half features a powerful interview with Oklahoma Governor Kevin Stitt, who argues that the 2020 McGirt v. Oklahoma decision, which affirmed that much of eastern Oklahoma remains Native American reservation land, has created a jurisdictional nightmare. He details real-world consequences: unequal criminal justice, lack of transparency in tribal courts, and political gridlock due to tribal influence in state politics. Despite the legal clarity of the Court’s ruling, Stitt contends that Congress has failed to act, and no meaningful compromise exists—making the situation a profound failure of democratic process and a threat to equal justice under the law.