At The Money: Blurring the Lines Between Public and Private Investments
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The line between public and private markets is dissolving as institutional investors increasingly package private assets—like venture capital stakes and private credit—into publicly traded vehicles such as closed-end funds, interval funds, and ETFs. Dave Nottig, president of ETF.com, warns that these 'liquid alts' are not truly liquid and often trade at deep discounts to their net asset value, creating a dangerous illusion of accessibility. He argues that the real motive behind these products isn't democratization, but rather institutional investors using retail investors as an exit strategy during bull markets. The lack of transparency, inflated fees, and reliance on quarterly markups for illiquid assets—like SpaceX or private startups—make these funds risky and opaque. Nottig predicts a reckoning is coming, likely in the form of a high-profile fund failure that will expose the fragility of this hybrid model. Until then, he urges investors to treat these products with extreme skepticism, echoing Groucho Marx: 'I don’t want to be a member of any club that would have me.' The episode reveals how the 40 Act’s outdated structures—like closed-end funds and non-traded vehicles—are being weaponized to sell private investments to retail investors under the guise of liquidity. Even funds like Pershing Square’s PSUS, which trades on the NYSE, are priced at 20% discounts, signaling a lack of confidence.
Private investments are being packaged into public wrappers like closed-end funds and interval funds, creating 'liquid alts' that are neither truly liquid nor transparent.
Closed-end funds often trade at 15-20% discounts to NAV because they lack liquidity and are not subject to daily pricing, making them poor vehicles for retail investors.
Funds like PSUS and USVC charge 2%+ fees and layer on additional fund-of-funds expenses, pushing total costs to 3-4%, which erodes returns over time.
Private assets in public vehicles are marked quarterly using 'volatility laundering'—artificially smoothing valuations to hide risk, often based on comps rather than real market prices.
Retail investors are being used as an exit strategy by institutional 'smart money' during bull markets, not as democratized access to private wealth.
…and 3 more takeaways available in PodZeus
The Rise of Liquid Alts
Introduces the core theme: the blurring of lines between public and private markets as private assets are packaged into public investment vehicles like ETFs and closed-end funds.
The Illusion of Accessibility
Explains how private credit and venture capital are being marketed to retail investors through interval funds and non-traded closed-end funds, often with misleading claims of democratization.
Closed-End Funds: The Roach Motel of Investing
Breaks down the mechanics of closed-end funds, interval funds, and tender offer funds—vehicles that let money in but rarely let it out, creating permanent capital for issuers.
Why Funds Trade at Discounts
Analyzes why closed-end funds like PSUS trade at 20% discounts—due to lack of liquidity, opaque valuations, and no redemption mechanism, despite strong underlying assets.
The Hidden Costs and Conflicts
Highlights the high fees (2-4%), layered expenses, and lack of transparency in private investment vehicles, especially when they hold other funds or illiquid private stakes.
“We're going to have some event in the next couple years which is going to pull the scales off our eyes around private securities.”
“I don't want to be a member of any club that would have me.”
“Right, exactly. That's the exact routine. Listen, either it's private and illiquid or public and liquid, but private and liquid doesn't really... At that point, it might as well be public.”
Hosts
Guest
Dave Nottig
person
Bill Ackman
person
USVC
organization
Pershing Square
organization
USPE
organization
ETF.com
organization
Blue Owl
organization
George Carlin
person
Blackstone
organization
AngelList
organization
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