Inside Hudson River Trading's Blistering Token Burn

Odd Lots31mJune 5, 2026
AI-Generated Summary

Hudson River Trading's AI-driven trading operation is racing toward a future where models predict markets with near-magical precision—yet the real bottleneck isn't compute, but access to power and data center capacity. Ian Dunning, head of AI at the firm, reveals that while they could theoretically launch a deepseek-style LLM, the capital and infrastructure demands make it impractical. Instead, they're locked in a high-stakes race to secure GPU clusters, often accepting suboptimal sites and long-term contracts with hyperscalers. What’s more unsettling: the firm is already seeing AI agents outperform human researchers at ideating trading signals—though they’re still only at 'intern level'—and the most powerful models now make decisions based on patterns no human can interpret, like linking meme stocks through hyper-dimensional clustering. The result? A self-reinforcing cycle where the wealthy get faster, more productive, and more profitable—simply by spending more on tokens. This isn’t just AI adoption; it’s a new economic regime where speed, scale, and capital are the only moats left. The episode also exposes the hidden fragility beneath the AI boom: data centers are scarce, contracts are complex, and even the most powerful firms are playing catch-up. Dunning admits he’s failed to forecast demand for GPUs, and now every new model release forces a scramble.

Key Takeaways
1

Hudson River Trading's AI models now outperform human researchers at signal ideation, though they're still at 'intern level' and lack interpretability.

2

The real bottleneck in AI trading isn't chips—it's access to power and data center capacity, with long-term contracts and high upfront payments now standard.

3

Firms like Hudson River Trading are building in-house inference chips and exploring partnerships with Broadcom, Amazon, and Google to reduce vendor lock-in.

4

AI is creating a winner-take-all dynamic: token spend correlates with productivity, and the wealthy can afford 50% faster teams simply by spending more.

5

The firm is testing AI agents against human researchers in a 'battle' format, with models already showing emergent understanding of market clusters like meme stocks.

…and 3 more takeaways available in PodZeus

Chapters
0:00
2 min

Sponsor: VanEck Real Assets ETF

Introductory ad for VanEck's RAX ETF, highlighting the growing importance of real assets like gold, commodities, and infrastructure in today's markets.

1:51
1 min

Live Show Launch: The Future of Trading

Joe and Tracy reflect on their largest live show yet in New York City, themed around the future of trading and AI's role in it.

3:09
2 min

Could Hudson River Trading Launch a DeepSeek Competitor?

I think so. I think we're good at training models. We have a lot of compute and people are good at doing the cycle of research which is required to catch up to the sort of frontier. However, I guess reaching the frontier is clearly a very daunting task.

Highlight
5:12
2 min

AI-Induced Delirium and the Exponential Endgame

It's some sort of technological convergence, everything going faster all the time. Well, give us an example. Delirium probably, but you know. Give us an example then because, you know, obviously those of us using just the regular models, obviously the improvements and capabilities from one year to another are mind-blowing.

Highlight
7:18
2 min

AI in Quant Research: From Handcrafted Signals to AI-Generated Ideas

It's sort of post-post-post capitalism when I see IPOs discussed for this coming summer at the valuations they are. I'm like, what is a fundamental? Like what is anything? It feels like markets are just, uh, the cynical thing is everything is gambling.

Highlight
High-Impact Quotes
But we looked at the model under a certain lens, and it clearly felt like they knew they were connected. actual companies that I probably won't name because it feels like it's bad form. But, you know, Wall Street Bets favorites, I guess. And they were near the cluster too.
Ian Dunning14:00
It's sort of post -post -post capitalism when I see IPOs. discussed for this coming summer at the valuations they are. I'm like, what is a fundamental? Like what is anything? It feels like markets are just, uh, the cynical thing is everything is gambling.
Ian Dunning10:50
I think the first thing is just trying to embrace an open book philosophy, like let the interviews be done with the aid of AI. It's something we're trying to aspire to do because it's just at some point you become, it becomes unrealistic to pretend anyone would work without that.
Ian Dunning31:02
Speakers

Hosts

Joe WeisenthalTracy Allaway

Guest

Ian Dunning
Topics Discussed
ai in trading95%compute capacity90%data center scarcity88%token spend85%inference chips80%ai talent75%prompt engineering70%compute futures65%
People & Brands

hudson river trading

organization

18xNeutral

ian dunning

person

15xNeutral

nvidia

organization

6xPositive

hyperscalers

organization

5xNeutral

anthropic

organization

4xNeutral

blackwell

product

3xNeutral

carmen lee

person

2xNeutral

compute exchange

organization

2xNeutral

deepseek

organization

2xNeutral

amazon

organization

2xNeutral

Start discovering podcast insights today

Start with a 7-day trial and explore a growing catalog of popular podcasts. No credit card required.

No credit card required • 7-day trial • Cancel anytime