462. In a Good Place with Leidy Klotz
Leidy Klotz’s new book, *In a Good Place*, reveals a profound truth: our physical spaces don’t just hold us—they shape how we think, feel, and connect, often without us realizing it. Drawing from personal grief and decades of research, Klotz argues that we’ve lost a vital relationship with our surroundings by outsourcing every interaction to screens, GPS, and automation. The result? A quiet erosion of agency, belonging, and growth—core psychological needs that thrive when we engage with our environment. From a child building a sandcastle to a father memorializing his daughter through a trail named 'Josie’s Way,' Klotz shows how physical spaces become vessels for memory, meaning, and transcendence. The most powerful insight? We’re not just shaped by space—we’re also responsible for holding up our end of the relationship with it. By choosing to notice, to touch, to rearrange, and to be present, we reclaim our mental clarity, deepen our connections, and find joy in the ordinary. The co-hosts reflect on how this applies to family life: a home where each person occupies a distinct space isn’t a sign of disconnection, but a form of respect. Just as Scott Rick’s research found that couples thrive with both shared and private accounts, Klotz’s framework suggests that thriving communities require both autonomy and shared rituals. The key isn’t forced togetherness, but intentional design—creating spaces that allow individuals to flourish while also inviting connection.
Physical spaces shape our agency, belonging, and growth—core psychological needs that are starved when we disengage from them.
Every time you use GPS, automate lighting, or listen to audio while walking, you’re outsourcing a chance to engage with your environment and lose a moment of mental clarity.
The most powerful way to remember someone who’s passed is to embed their spirit into physical space—like a trail named 'Josie’s Way' that continues to inspire new generations.
Shared spaces thrive when they balance autonomy and connection: like a family where each member has a private zone but gathers at the dinner table.
You can use your physical environment as a memory anchor—tagging lessons or emotional moments to specific locations to make them more memorable.
…and 3 more takeaways available in PodZeus
Introducing Leidy Klotz and His New Book, In a Good Place
Yael welcomes back Leidy Klotz, a professor at the University of Virginia and author of *Subtract*, to discuss his new book, *In a Good Place*, which explores how physical spaces shape our thoughts, emotions, and relationships.
Running Without Music: The Power of Being Present in Space
“I'm out there in space. But I think I know where this is going. I don't think what you're doing is wrong. But given that you are somebody who probably consumes a lot of books and media, and I know that you're into Bruce Springsteen, why are you so committed to your runs that are more in your physical space?”
Why Psychology and Physical Design Must Be Connected
Klotz explains the artificial split between mind and matter, arguing that our inner world is deeply shaped by our outer world. He critiques how disciplines like psychology and architecture are siloed, missing the powerful insights that emerge from their intersection.
How Spaces Fulfill Core Psychological Needs: Agency, Belonging, Growth
“Any kid playing at the beach is eventually going to be called to like play with the sand, right? And make something in the sand. And so there's agency and like, okay, I can decide how I want to interact with this surrounding.”
The Bi-Directional Evolution of Humans and Their Environments
Klotz traces how humans evolved to build monuments and collaborate in groups, showing how physical spaces shaped social connection—and how those social needs, in turn, shaped the built environment.
“And what he found was that the best setup for relational happiness was the combination that you have one joint account that's entirely transparent and that you have two smaller accounts that are to the individual's discretion of how they spend it and to do so privately.”
“We shape our spaces and our spaces shape us. I think everybody recognizes that. I think when I talk about holding up our end of the relationship, it's been, it's easier now not to have to engage.”
“Yeah, the screen can work as a cue, right? Because if you find yourself looking at a screen, the first thing to do is say, well, have I like taken in this space and are there things about this space that I would appreciate or that I should notice?”
Host
Guest
Leidy Klotz
person
Josie
person
In a Good Place
book
AquaTrue
brand
Simple Practice
brand
Jennifer Wallace
person
Mattering
book
Scott Rick
person
Both and
other
Subtract
book
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