Does the term “permanence” help or hinder outcomes for children: Family Justice Council Debate (Part 2)
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The Relational Social Work Podcast concludes its two-part debate on whether the term 'permanence' helps or hinders outcomes for children in care, revealing a striking divergence between legal definitions and lived realities. While the legal framework defines permanence broadly—encompassing adoption, special guardianship, and long-term fostering—practitioners and families often experience it as a rigid, high-stakes label that sets children and parents up to fail. A powerful thread throughout the discussion is that the term implies finality and permanence in a system marked by instability, disruption, and systemic under-resourcing. Judges, social workers, and legal advocates argue that the pressure to make 'permanent' decisions within tight 26-week timelines often forces premature choices, especially for young children, without adequate support for reunification. The data shows that long-term foster care is more unstable than adoption, and that reunification—though possible—is rarely supported with the necessary therapeutic, financial, and systemic resources. A pivotal moment comes when the audience votes: 28 online and a near-unanimous room vote conclude that 'permanence' hinders outcomes. This outcome reflects a growing consensus that the language itself is counterproductive, reinforcing failure when placements break down and obscuring the reality that stability, not permanence, is the true goal.
The term 'permanence' sets children and families up to fail because it implies finality in a system defined by instability and change.
Long-term foster care is more unstable than adoption, yet is often treated as a permanent solution without adequate support.
Reunification is rarely supported with therapeutic or financial resources, making it a self-fulfilling prophecy of failure.
The 26-week timeline in care proceedings often forces premature decisions, undermining purposeful work toward family restoration.
Children and families find the term 'permanence' meaningless and damaging—especially when placements break down.
…and 3 more takeaways available in PodZeus
Sponsorship & Introduction
The episode opens with a sponsorship announcement from The Care Leaders Fellowship, followed by a brief introduction to the podcast and a reminder to listeners that this is Part 2 of a two-part debate on the term 'permanence' in child care.
Debate Context & Transition
The hosts recap the previous episode, emphasizing the dramatic garden filming setup and the shift from debate to Q&A. They explain that this episode will feature audience questions, live voting, and post-debate reflections.
Live Q&A: The Core Debate
“We've made this decision that we were going to parent them. And then we're the worst grandparents ever, aren't we? Because then we've removed children from people that we've been parenting.”
Data, Disruption, and Language
“For me, no. And I think we've done a lot of work around language that cares... the term generally from children and young people that are in care, they find it quite, they don't like it or those that have left care because they just say that's not the reality of what the system is.”
Voting & Results
“In the room, that's overwhelmingly carried. We wait for the votes of Yugoslavia jury. We've had 42 votes online and it's 28 hinders, 14 helps.”
“We've made this decision that we were going to parent them. And then we're the worst grandparents ever, aren't we? Because then we've removed children from people that we've been parenting.”
“In the room, that's overwhelmingly carried. We wait for the votes of Yugoslavia jury. We've had 42 votes online and it's 28 hinders, 14 helps.”
“The only people that were on the side really had that view were the sort of legal professionals and everyone else was on the side that they believed in.”
Hosts
Guests
The Care Leaders Fellowship
organization
Families First
other
Children's Act
other
Lorraine Kavanagh
person
Elaine Farmer
person
Dave Linton
person
Tom
person
Madlog
organization
Family Justice Council
organization
BBC
organization
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