Übersheep and Orthogonal Things | Interview: Luke Burgis
Luke Burgis argues that modern society is drowning in 'social contagion'—invisible, involuntary forces that dissolve individual identity into group conformity, making people feel like they're thinking freely while actually absorbing beliefs passively through algorithms and cultural pressure. Drawing on René Girard's mimetic desire and Robert Nisbet's 'Quest for Community,' Burgis warns that the loss of rites of passage and differentiated selves has left people emotionally and spiritually fragile. The real danger isn't overt coercion, but the seductive illusion of autonomy: we think we're choosing our tribes, but we're just being shaped by systems that reward conformity. The solution? Institutions—especially the Church—that foster a 'solid self' through disciplined, one-on-one relationships, not tribal belonging. Burgis sees the Pope’s recent AI encyclical as a crucial intervention, reminding us that human dignity isn't reducible to data or energy inputs. In a world where AI can mimic human conversation, he calls for a legal mandate: any AI must truthfully disclose its non-human status.
Social contagion is not conscious conformity but invisible, involuntary belief absorption through algorithms and cultural pressure.
The modern self is being dissolved into groups, leading to a 'pseudo self' that constantly adapts to short-term rewards like status or power.
Rites of passage—like seminary life or family conflict resolution—are essential for forming a 'solid self' that can exist in community.
One-on-one relationships are the most powerful antidote to groupthink, yet they're increasingly rare in modern life.
The Pope’s AI encyclical is a vital warning: human dignity is unrepeatable and cannot be reduced to energy inputs or data.
…and 3 more takeaways available in PodZeus
Introducing the Crisis of the Social Self
“Social contagion is the most important phenomenon of our time. And I'll never interrupt for the opening question, but why don't you explain what social contagion is?”
The Invisible Coercion of Algorithms and Identity
“If it comes passively at them over TikTok, they will absorb it because they don't feel like they're actually being pressured.”
The Loss of Rites of Passage and the Rise of the Pseudo Self
“We don't have institutions that form people anymore. We have institutions that are just... kind of used as these, you know, play things like nobody takes them seriously anymore.”
The Church, AI, and the Future of Human Dignity
“You shouldn't be able to impersonate a human being if you're not a human being.”
“You shouldn't be able to impersonate a human being if you're not a human being.”
“But if it comes passively at them over TikTok, they will absorb it because they don't feel like they're actually being pressured.”
“So the book is about social contagion and the premise is that social contagion is the most important phenomenon of our time.”
Host
Guest
Jonah Goldberg
person
Luke Burgis
person
The Remnant Podcast
media
The One and the 99
book
Pope Francis
person
Murray Bowen
person
René Girard
person
Why Post-Liberalism Failed
book
Robert Nisbet
person
Catholic University of America
organization
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