Übersheep and Orthogonal Things | Interview: Luke Burgis

The Remnant with Jonah Goldberg1h 9mJune 8, 2026
AI-Generated Summary

Luke Burgis argues that modern society is drowning in 'social contagion'—invisible, involuntary forces that dissolve individual identity into group conformity, making people feel like they're thinking freely while actually absorbing beliefs passively through algorithms and cultural pressure. Drawing on René Girard's mimetic desire and Robert Nisbet's 'Quest for Community,' Burgis warns that the loss of rites of passage and differentiated selves has left people emotionally and spiritually fragile. The real danger isn't overt coercion, but the seductive illusion of autonomy: we think we're choosing our tribes, but we're just being shaped by systems that reward conformity. The solution? Institutions—especially the Church—that foster a 'solid self' through disciplined, one-on-one relationships, not tribal belonging. Burgis sees the Pope’s recent AI encyclical as a crucial intervention, reminding us that human dignity isn't reducible to data or energy inputs. In a world where AI can mimic human conversation, he calls for a legal mandate: any AI must truthfully disclose its non-human status.

Key Takeaways
1

Social contagion is not conscious conformity but invisible, involuntary belief absorption through algorithms and cultural pressure.

2

The modern self is being dissolved into groups, leading to a 'pseudo self' that constantly adapts to short-term rewards like status or power.

3

Rites of passage—like seminary life or family conflict resolution—are essential for forming a 'solid self' that can exist in community.

4

One-on-one relationships are the most powerful antidote to groupthink, yet they're increasingly rare in modern life.

5

The Pope’s AI encyclical is a vital warning: human dignity is unrepeatable and cannot be reduced to energy inputs or data.

…and 3 more takeaways available in PodZeus

Chapters
0:14
20 min

Introducing the Crisis of the Social Self

Social contagion is the most important phenomenon of our time. And I'll never interrupt for the opening question, but why don't you explain what social contagion is?

Highlight
20:00
22 min

The Invisible Coercion of Algorithms and Identity

If it comes passively at them over TikTok, they will absorb it because they don't feel like they're actually being pressured.

Highlight
41:40
17 min

The Loss of Rites of Passage and the Rise of the Pseudo Self

We don't have institutions that form people anymore. We have institutions that are just... kind of used as these, you know, play things like nobody takes them seriously anymore.

Highlight
58:20
11 min

The Church, AI, and the Future of Human Dignity

You shouldn't be able to impersonate a human being if you're not a human being.

Highlight
High-Impact Quotes
You shouldn't be able to impersonate a human being if you're not a human being.
Jonah Goldberg61:30
But if it comes passively at them over TikTok, they will absorb it because they don't feel like they're actually being pressured.
Luke Burgis7:22
So the book is about social contagion and the premise is that social contagion is the most important phenomenon of our time.
Luke Burgis1:23
Speakers

Host

Jonah Goldberg

Guest

Luke Burgis
Topics Discussed
social contagion95%identity formation90%AI ethics88%rites of passage87%digital identity85%institutional character formation84%Catholic Church and society80%group loyalty75%
People & Brands

Jonah Goldberg

person

15xPositive

Luke Burgis

person

12xPositive

The Remnant Podcast

media

10xPositive

The One and the 99

book

8xPositive

Pope Francis

person

5xPositive

Murray Bowen

person

4xPositive

René Girard

person

4xPositive

Why Post-Liberalism Failed

book

3xNeutral

Robert Nisbet

person

3xPositive

Catholic University of America

organization

3xNeutral

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