Let's Not and Say We Did
Jeff, a man in a marriage experimenting with ethical non-monogamy, finds himself trapped in a cycle of fabrication when he asks his friend Leslie to help him invent fake romantic encounters to maintain the illusion of his relationship with his wife, Ingrid. What begins as a harmless lie to make Ingrid feel validated spirals into a complex web of invented women—Steph, Leslie, and Rose—each crafted with elaborate backstories and details. But when Leslie reveals she’s been emotionally invested in the stories too, and that she’s not actually a real person in Jeff’s life, the truth collapses. The revelation forces Jeff and Leslie to confront the deeper truth: their invented narratives were a shared act of emotional survival, not deception. In the end, they realize the stories weren’t just for Ingrid—they were a lifeline for themselves, a way to feel seen and alive in a marriage that had grown emotionally distant. The episode lands on a powerful insight: sometimes, the stories we tell to survive are more real than the lives we pretend to live. The episode dismantles the myth that infidelity is the only threat to a marriage, showing instead how emotional disconnection, loneliness, and the need for identity can drive people to create entire worlds of fiction. It reframes the 'affair' not as betrayal, but as a desperate attempt to reclaim agency.
Creating fake romantic stories for your partner can become a shared emotional lifeline, not just deception.
The need to feel seen and desired can drive people to invent entire relationships, even when they’re not real.
Loneliness in a marriage often isn’t about sex—it’s about feeling invisible to your partner.
The most powerful stories aren’t about truth, but about the need to be heard and understood.
Emotional affairs aren’t about sex—they’re about identity, autonomy, and the fear of being forgotten.
…and 3 more takeaways available in PodZeus
The Lie That Started It All
“I don't want to have sex with you. But could I say I did?”
The Myth of Ethical Non-Monogamy
Jeff and Ingrid’s journey into ethical non-monogamy begins as a solution to marital boredom, but quickly becomes a performance that erodes intimacy.
The Birth of Fake Leslie
“He said, you can have plants, but just know you'll be solely responsible for their survival. He said he has plant blindness.”
The Spreadsheets of Deception
“We need to be able to write stuff down. What about a spreadsheet? Like a shared spreadsheet? No, that's perfect.”
The Collapse of the Fiction
“Steph and Leslie... They don't exist? Not the Leslie you know. What does that mean?”
“The guy she's dating, the places she's going, the sex she's having. She thinks it's all a big lark like an interim, but it's not. That's her new life. It's already started.”
“Steph and Leslie... They don't exist? Not the Leslie you know. What does that mean?”
“I knew on some level it couldn't last, but losing it all of a sudden like that just really messed me up.”
Host
Guests
Leslie
person
Jeff
person
The Truth
media
Ingrid
person
Steph
person
Jonathan Mitchell
person
Rose
person
Dave and Shauna
person
Mac Rogers
person
Dennis Pacheco
person
BONUS: Inside "Let's Not and Say We Did"
24m • 6/11/2026
Paris catacombs reopen after renovation
14m • 6/1/2026
Vault: Have His Kids Become Too Jaded by Privilege?
11m • 6/1/2026
Full Show PT 1: Monday, June 1 [Vault]
35m • 6/1/2026
Full Show PT 2: Monday, June 1 [Vault]
34m • 6/1/2026
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