Do We Have The Right To Die? With Lady Hale and Rowan Williams (Part Two)
The second part of Intelligence Squared's live debate on assisted dying features former Supreme Court President Lady Hale and former Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams confronting a moral and legal paradox: how to balance individual autonomy with societal vulnerability. A central tension emerges around the concept of 'unbearable' suffering—subjective, deeply personal, and impossible to objectively measure. Williams recounts a haunting real-life story of a priest helping a dying man choose death, underscoring the intimate, ethical weight of such decisions. Yet both speakers acknowledge the slippery slope: if we allow assisted dying for severe illness, how do we prevent it from being pressured by poverty, social isolation, or mental distress? The discussion reveals a chilling reality—disadvantaged communities in Canada and Oregon show disproportionate use of MAID, not due to medical criteria alone, but because of systemic neglect. A powerful personal testimony from a woman who helped her husband die in Switzerland—then later learned she had motor neurone disease—exposes the absurdity of a law that criminalizes compassion. She asks: if we can’t die with dignity at home, why should we be forced into secrecy, risk, or even suicide? The episode doesn’t resolve the conflict but reframes it: the real question isn’t just about dying well, but about whether our society is built to support dignity in life for all.
The term 'unbearable' suffering is subjective and cannot be objectively judged by lawmakers or doctors.
Disadvantaged communities in Canada and Oregon show 4–5x higher rates of MAID, revealing systemic inequality in access and pressure.
Legalizing assisted dying may not solve suffering but could expose deep flaws in social care, mental health, and palliative support.
Personal stories—like helping a spouse die in Switzerland—reveal the moral urgency of choice, even when breaking the law.
The fear of being seen as a burden, especially among the elderly or disabled, is a real and valid concern that legislation must address.
…and 3 more takeaways available in PodZeus
Introduction to the Debate
The episode opens with a sponsor ad for Shopify, followed by a formal introduction to the Intelligence Squared debate on assisted dying, featuring Lady Hale and Rowan Williams. The event marks the launch of the book 'Do We Have The Right To Die?' as part of the Think Again series.
The Canadian and Oregon Paradox
“My understanding is that there are some quite troubling statistics about the disproportionate uptake of MAID in disadvantaged areas in Canadian cities.”
The Subjectivity of 'Unbearable' Suffering
“I don't think it's for us to say we don't agree with you. We don't think it's unbearable. I wouldn't find it unbearable. So why should you find it unbearable?”
The Slippery Slope and Moral Ambiguity
“There's no obvious break in the argumentation leading from one to the other, which is why in contexts like Canada, Oregon and the Netherlands there has been that slippage...”
The Role of Social and Economic Inequality
The conversation explores how poverty and family strain can influence the decision to seek assisted dying. A parent may feel their illness is a burden on their children, especially when resources are stretched.
“And the sick man said, well, if you think this is the best thing for me, and the priest said, it's the thing that will spare you pain. And the man said, then give me the injection.”
“So where's the morality in not allowing me that? How can the law say you can't do it?”
“There ought to be a law against assisted dying and it ought sometimes to be broken.”
Host
Guests
Lady Hale
person
Rowan Williams
person
Canada
place
Motor Neurone Disease
other
Oregon
other
Switzerland
place
Jonathan Sumption
person
Netherlands
place
Think Again
other
Royal College of Psychologists
organization
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